Baystate Jeepers

So I've decided to make the jump to 40's, wanted to get some thoughts/opinions on it. Currently running the stock JK D44's, 4.88 R&P, front sleeved, gusseted C's, I've got a set of RCV's, Reid knuckles, and Synergy ball joints coming shortly also. Planning on trussing both the front and rear pumpkin. Also looks like I'll be adding a 1" body lift to give the fender wells in the rear a bit more clearance. I think that pretty much covers me on axle integrity/clearance issues (please chime in if you think I've overlooked something,) mostly I'd like to get some opinions on tires and wheels you guys have run.

For tires, the three I'm looking at are 1.) Maxxis Trepador 2.) MT/R K 3.) Pitbull Rocker, all of which would be a 40x13.50R17. I'm currently running 35x12.50 Nitto Trail Grapplers; I've wheeled with guys on MT/R K's, KM2's, Duratracs, and a few more and I can honestly say (even though my Nitto is an "E" tire) I haven't seen anyone get traction like I do...unfortunately they only run up to a 37". Any other recommendations on tires? I know a lot of you have been wheeling a long time and have used/seen a lot of different options in action.

I've had a bit of trouble locating options for wheels. I'm going to run a 17" so I can accomodate larger rotors, and it looks like I'll need to go with a 3.5" backspace or less. With my 35x12.50's on a 4.5" backspace I still rub my LCA at full lock, but it's honestly just a little bit. The only thing I've found to meet those requirements are a wheel made my Spyderlock. They only have one style, and it's definitely well made, but I'd like to know if there are any other options out there. JK is a 5 on 5 lug pattern.

ArticRubi wrote:So I've decided to make the jump to 40's, wanted to get some thoughts/opinions on it.

What are you going to buy for a tow rig? Seriously. Your chances of actually driving the several hour ride from Somerville to a trail head without getting pulled over 6 times is pretty low. It's an unfortunate reality in our wonderful state.

ArticRubi wrote: Currently running the stock JK D44's, 4.88 R&P, front sleeved, gusseted C's, I've got a set of RCV's, Reid knuckles, and Synergy ball joints coming shortly also. Planning on trussing both the front and rear pumpkin. Also looks like I'll be adding a 1" body lift to give the fender wells in the rear a bit more clearance. I think that pretty much covers me on axle integrity/clearance issues (please chime in if you think I've overlooked something,) mostly I'd like to get some opinions on tires and wheels you guys have run.

I know you probably don't want to hear this, but if you actually run the trails that require 40's, you probably should have saved the coin and built a Dana 60. Especially with a blown V6. 9 out of 10 hardcore guys will agree. That said, I run a custom front HP44 with 4340 30 spline inner and outer shafts, HD knuckles and drive slugs and it holds together most of the time running 150 lb 38x15.5" MT Claws. I run an AMC 2.5L with gearing though.

ArticRubi wrote:For tires, the three I'm looking at are 1.) Maxxis Trepador 2.) MT/R K 3.) Pitbull Rocker, all of which would be a 40x13.50R17. I'm currently running 35x12.50 Nitto Trail Grapplers; I've wheeled with guys on MT/R K's, KM2's, Duratracs, and a few more and I can honestly say (even though my Nitto is an "E" tire) I haven't seen anyone get traction like I do...unfortunately they only run up to a 37". Any other recommendations on tires? I know a lot of you have been wheeling a long time and have used/seen a lot of different options in action.

I've had a bit of trouble locating options for wheels. I'm going to run a 17" so I can accomodate larger rotors, and it looks like I'll need to go with a 3.5" backspace or less. With my 35x12.50's on a 4.5" backspace I still rub my LCA at full lock, but it's honestly just a little bit. The only thing I've found to meet those requirements are a wheel made my Spyderlock. They only have one style, and it's definitely well made, but I'd like to know if there are any other options out there. JK is a 5 on 5 lug pattern.

There aren’t too many folks here who run tires that big. As Baystate is a stock to slightly modified club, most run tires that get them to the trail and back without raising the brow of Johnny Law. Some may be able to comment on the style though. Many buggy guys I know run Red Label BFG Krawlers (aka “stickies”). They come in a nice 39” size and being a competition compound, really hook up.

Wheels? I’m more of a cheapie white spoke kinda guy. I might even weld some bead locks together when my buggy reaches that point. I guess it all depends on how much you’re looking to spend and possibly how you wheel ( <- no pun ).

ZAEDOCK wrote: What are you going to buy for a tow rig? Seriously. Your chances of actually driving the several hour ride from Somerville to a trail head without getting pulled over 6 times is pretty low. It's an unfortunate reality in our wonderful state.

This is a pretty good point here. Lifted 3.5" and running 35's I'm technically already out of spec. Definitely a concern since this rig is a DD for about the next 2 years.

ZAEDOCK wrote:I know you probably don't want to hear this, but if you actually run the trails that require 40's, you probably should have saved the coin and built a Dana 60. Especially with a blown V6. 9 out of 10 hardcore guys will agree. That said, I run a custom front HP44 with 4340 30 spline inner and outer shafts, HD knuckles and drive slugs and it holds together most of the time running 150 lb 38x15.5" MT Claws. I run an AMC 2.5L with gearing though.

May have to agree to disagree here. The JK D44 is significantly stronger than previous models including a larger ring gear (8.9") and larger diameter and thicker tube wall (3" x .375"). Lots of guys are just building the D44 and running 40's without issues. Granted I am making some horsepower with the blower on there now, but usually don't see too many problems until they step up to a V8. A D60 would definitely be ideal, but I'm not quite convinced it will be needed to handle 40's. What does give me pause about going to 40's with my current lift is inhibiting suspension articulation. Even with the body lift I'm still going to have to increase bump stop quite a bit. I've been looking at some other options on tires, don't really want to bother with a 37" since they're all pretty much offered in a 12.50" width and only give another inch of ground clearance. I am liking the look of the MT/R K 38x14.50" since it is a C rated tire. Even though I've had excellent luck with my Trail Grapplers (E rated) it seems to be the exception rather than the rule. I'll probably be staying away from comp tires for now since I still see quite a bit of pavement, I would love to run a set of Creepy Crawlers though

ZAEDOCK wrote: There aren’t too many folks here who run tires that big. As Baystate is a stock to slightly modified club, most run tires that get them to the trail and back without raising the brow of Johnny Law. Some may be able to comment on the style though. Many buggy guys I know run Red Label BFG Krawlers (aka “stickies”). They come in a nice 39” size and being a competition compound, really hook up.

Wheels? I’m more of a cheapie white spoke kinda guy. I might even weld some bead locks together when my buggy reaches that point. I guess it all depends on how much you’re looking to spend and possibly how you wheel ( <- no pun ).

The KMC wheels I put on with the 35's were honestly a bit of a hangover from what I wanted for my Tacoma going a few years back. Pretty, yes, but they really aren't great in the rocks, the spokes tend to catch rather than slide and at this point they're rock rashed to hell and back. I'm thinking the Spyderlock is going to be the way to go here for a couple of reasons. Alloy construction will save a good bit of weight over a steel beadlock, the 17" diameter will work well with a brake upgrade I plan to do shortly, and the beadlock ring is pretty cheap to replace. I also like the look of them, as of now I'm still a bit proud of my Jeep being a bit of a pretty-boy

Thanks a lot from your input, especially where Johnny Law is concerned. I tend to overlook things like that when considering mods since NC is a lot more liberal when it comes to these issues.

ArticRubi wrote:

ZAEDOCK wrote:I know you probably don't want to hear this, but if you actually run the trails that require 40's, you probably should have saved the coin and built a Dana 60...

May have to agree to disagree here. The JK D44 is significantly stronger than previous models including a larger ring gear (8.9") and larger diameter and thicker tube wall (3" x .375"). Lots of guys are just building the D44 and running 40's without issues.

A JK front 44 is stronger than a TJ but I wouldn't call it "significantly stronger" than a Waggy or full size 44. Stock for stock, I actually think it is weaker in many respects.

Regardless, my point was that for the cost; RCV shafts, C-gussets, sleeves, trussing, knuckles, and custom ball joints, you could have found a high pinion Ford king pin 60 and built it for much less, without the need for trussing, sleeving, etc. I just saw one on NEOW sell for $350.00. I'm sure your axle will serve you just fine, I just prefer to buy in bulk.

Good luck in the tire search.

if it were a trailer queen i would say go 40's with that set up but being a dd i would stick to a 37. i big issue you will have is balljoints. i personally run 37 on my buggy with 44's but i like to give it the skinny pedal at times. if you are going to run 40's i would carry a extra unit bearing and outer shaft set up so you don't get stranded. my buddy runs rcv's with 39" stickies and has broken them not giving it much throttle. just my .02

ZAEDOCK wrote:

ArticRubi wrote:

ZAEDOCK wrote:I know you probably don't want to hear this, but if you actually run the trails that require 40's, you probably should have saved the coin and built a Dana 60...

May have to agree to disagree here. The JK D44 is significantly stronger than previous models including a larger ring gear (8.9") and larger diameter and thicker tube wall (3" x .375"). Lots of guys are just building the D44 and running 40's without issues.

A JK front 44 is stronger than a TJ but I wouldn't call it "significantly stronger" than a Waggy or full size 44. Stock for stock, I actually think it is weaker in many respects.

Regardless, my point was that for the cost; RCV shafts, C-gussets, sleeves, trussing, knuckles, and custom ball joints, you could have found a high pinion Ford king pin 60 and built it for much less, without the need for trussing, sleeving, etc. I just saw one on NEOW sell for $350.00. I'm sure your axle will serve you just fine, I just prefer to buy in bulk.

Good luck in the tire search.

As much as I hate to admit it, a complete axle build is still a bit over my head. Mainly just setting up ring and pinion, but it's something I need to learn. I'm planning on finding a set of 60's over the next few months for a winter basement project. I would like to think that I can recoup quite a bit of what I have invested in my 44's when I get ready to make change. That plan is, of course, about as solid as a fart in the wind.

mopar_power wrote:if it were a trailer queen i would say go 40's with that set up but being a dd i would stick to a 37. i big issue you will have is balljoints. i personally run 37 on my buggy with 44's but i like to give it the skinny pedal at times. if you are going to run 40's i would carry a extra unit bearing and outer shaft set up so you don't get stranded. my buddy runs rcv's with 39" stickies and has broken them not giving it much throttle. just my .02

I'm hoping the synergy ball joints I got will hold up well, next step up is Dynatrac at about double the cost. Warranty on both was the same, 12 months, so I went ahead with those. So is it your feeling that going from a 12.50 wide 37 to a 14.50 wide 38 is a bit too much?

ArticRubi wrote: I'm hoping the synergy ball joints I got will hold up well, next step up is Dynatrac at about double the cost. Warranty on both was the same, 12 months, so I went ahead with those. So is it your feeling that going from a 12.50 wide 37 to a 14.50 wide 38 is a bit too much?

I'll offer a warning on the Dynatrac ball joints... I recently had a set installed on my Dodge Ram 3500 when I needed new ones... The Dodge trucks are well known for eating ball joints and unit bearings, even with stock sized tires in 20k-30k miles, so I figured I was paying extra now and would recoup the cost when I rebuilt these in the future.

When I got my truck back the ball joints were so stiff the wheels wouldn't return to center in a corner -- you had to actually steer the wheels straight. This made driving very uncomfortable, and somewhat dangerous. We measured each side by turning the lower ball joint nut (after fully assembled, tie rod disconnected) with a torque wrench and determined each side needed ~100 ft-lbs of force to turn the knuckle. I've had these ball joints for ~3 weeks now and they are improving/loosening up, slowly. When consulted about the issue Dynatrac said stiffness was "normal" and it could take up to 5k miles for the ball joints to break in fully and respond like OE ball joints.

My installer had done several sets of these before and hadn't seen any this bad. Because of my initial safety concerns my installer worked a deal where he was going to swap in another set of ball joints and Dynatrac was going to foot the bill.... However, by the time we got that deal setup a couple weeks went by and the ball joints had gone from terribly bad to stiff -- the wheel sort of returns to center on its own. I discussed with the installer, had his tech drive the truck (tech drove after the initial install), and we decided not to replace these ball joints because there was no way to tell if the new ones would actually be better.

I would not say I'm happy with these ball joints, but I'm optimistic they're getting better. Just be aware that you could have similar problems. After this experience I wouldn't recommend Dynatrac's product, even though the company did try to step up when we brought the issue to them.

JW