OK, So anyone know what is with the Dealers?

[BlackKnight]

So I'm having transmission issues going back to 20 K miles (the first CEL was starting in wrong gear, I'm currently at just over 82K). I dropped it this morning as now it's 1/3 of the time not shifting properly, surging in between 4-5th gear and I get this back from the dealer...

"Well Mr. hood, you have an aftermarket front Dif cover that is leaking like a sieve, and we need to know who put your lift kit in? Also, the Transmission is throwing dozens of codes left and right, there is definitely something wrong, and it's not something that you would want to drive until it's fixed". I had a CEL the day I got back from vacation, then after 3 days it went away, I called the Stealership last week and today was the first opening.

One, I did my front diff at Kurts and it's a Poison Spyder with Lube locker gaskets. It has never leaked a drop, I know, I check it weekly. Second, the "lift" is a pair of leveling blocks (two-inch ones) in the front. and I pointed it out to her. The trans should be covered under warranty, However, it looks like they are going to try to get out of it because I've modified the drivetrain of the Jeep outside of OEM. This is not to mention that When I told them I had armored underneath with aftermarket skids, they almost didn't want to even look at it. they asked if I modified the OEMs, and I didn't, just added more/better...

Finally, they want $650 to do a teardown, to see the condition of the transmission, and verify that the fluids aren't "fudge". If the fluids are fine then it sounds like they will cover it under warranty, else I'm out the $650 for a teardown, and then the money for a new trans...

The Dealer is Dan's Jeep here in Westborough where I bought it. Has anyone else had any issues with them??

Bob

[MDSRACING398]

Best dealership I ever dealt with! Granted i dont have other people fix my stuff often. And yes they can charge extra to remove your skid plates. They are not what they are use to so takes extra time. If you were in business would you just say well it took me two extra hours because it's not the same but I'll just eat that cost? Also can you change the title of this thread. It is in public section.

[BlackKnight]

Best dealership I ever dealt with! Granted i dont have other people fix my stuff often. And yes they can charge extra to remove your skid plates. They are not what they are use to so takes extra time. If you were in business would you just say well it took me two extra hours because it's not the same but I'll just eat that cost? Also can you change the title of this thread. It is in public section.

Modified the title, sry...

I've been back to them several times and NEVER had an issue... Till now it seems... They are also the ones that passed my last inspection without giving me "too much" crap about the tire sidewall outside the fender.

[ZAEDOCK]

I believe legally, they have to prove that the modification caused the malfunction.
Lift pucks and diff covers are not going to affect a transmission. Be stern and hold your ground. The service dept. knows your add ons did not cause the issue.

Research both transmission issues for your year and review this:
https://www.mlmlaw.com/library/guides/f ... dermag.htm

My wife and I had to sue GM in the early 2000's and we won. It did take time, but it was worth it.

If all else fails, I can see if my Jasper account/discount is still active. Let me know.

Good luck.

[Marky]

If they give you crap, bring it to Lahti's in Leominster. They charged me a small amount of labor to remove and replace a skid (reasonable and fair), but they are fine with modifications otherwise. In fact, they were quite complimentary about the modifications on the vehicle.

[BlackKnight]

So here is an update, After $715 bill, for "take out charge" the dealer claims to have reprogrammed the transmission and flashed it with the latest firmware, and claimed it fixed, but also included that the transmission is not detective, and it was the change in the size of tires (29"s are stock, 32"s were put on) and that it was that which was causing my issues. I pointed out that the issue was happening before the tire change.

When I pulled it out of the dealer's lot on Monday the issue happened again. I pulled it in and after telling them if I shut it off and take it out of gear that the issue will go away, they insisted I do so. Then 20 minutes later the road test couldn't replicate so they sent me home with it telling me if it happens again bring it right away and the mechanic will road test again. It happened yesterday and upon getting to the dealer they wanted me to shut it off again. I argued and this time waited in my Jeep till the mechanic came out for the test drive and noted that there is a major issue that they didn't address.


However also on the test, in discussing things with the mechanic he kind of let it slip. Though they charged me for a takeout, they never removed the transmission, all they did was hooked up and flash/reprogram it and then flushed and changed the trans oil. It was there for 3 working days, so clearly hey sandbagged the time figuring it was a quick fix, and they grossly overcharged me.

[Richl35]

So here is an update, After $715 bill, for "take out charge"....

However also on the test, in discussing things with the mechanic he kind of let it slip. Though they charged me for a takeout, they never removed the transmission, all they did was hooked up and flash/reprogram it and then flushed and changed the trans oil. It was there for 3 working days, so clearly hey sandbagged the time figuring it was a quick fix, and they grossly overcharged me.

BOOM! I was dealer tech in my early 20s. If this ever happened at either of the dealers I worked at the service manager, service writer along with me would have been fired!

I would have lost my mind and demanded every cent back immediately! Why do we hate dealerships so much???

[BlackKnight]

Another update. It's back at the stealership, the new valve body did not fix the issue. they just ordered me a brand new transmission. will get the jeep back Thursday or Friday.

Bob

[Emoto]

I would be tempted to ask for an adjustment on that $700 charge, since they "didn't take it out and forgot to change the quoted amount." (This gives them an out). If they refuse, I'd put that bill or a portion of it in contest with the credit card company.

I would wait until the new tranny is in there, though.

But, that's just me. YMMV.

[MDSRACING398]

First you said over charged you only reflashed and changed oil. Then you said they changed valve body? When do valve body?

[Frank]

Its so scary buying a new or used vehicle these days . Id like to see them offer one without all that electronic stuff. Cant even see why they just dont want to fix it to begin with , you bought it there and youd think they would want to seal the deal with service to keep you coming back. Like Joe said . They know lift pucks didnt do it , or the tire size change. If you can prove they didnt pull the trans and charged you for it , Id be all over that and then Id find a dealer who wants your business. ANY dealer has to do warranty work. FjR68

[BlackKnight]

First you said over charged you only reflashed and changed oil. Then you said they changed valve body? When do valve body?

Right after the first "fix", it did the same thing (pulling out of the dealership). I brought it back in after turning around and they couldn't replicate (they made me shut it off and take out of gear which resets the issue, and the subsequent test drive they couldn't recreate). The test driver told me that they didn't remove the transmission in the first repair, only flushed the fluid and re-flashed the computer. Told me that when it happens again to drive in, don't turn off, don't take out of gear.

It happened 3 days later, I drove in, they tried to get me to turn it off and come in to wait, and I refused, they insisted, and I told them the mechanic requested that it stay running and in gear. they relented (begrudgingly). The test driver came out, we went for a drive, noted that yes there was something definitely an issue. After dropping it off for the scheduled appointment, they called me and had me pick it up as the valve body, that had been the diagnosed issue of another Jeep that had the same issue, the part hadn't arrived yet, to come back in 2 days later.

That was the last time I had my JKU, They switched out the valve body and the issue happened again for them, they then called me (Monday) and told me that they ordered a new transmission and it would arrive 2-3 days and I should have it back by the end of the week.

So the timeline:
~20K Miles, CEL, and Limp mode, Error code reset by dealer "Started in wrong gear" (it's an Auto, can't be started in anything but park/neutral.

~30K first ever issue switching gears wrong, no CEL, Was arriving home and didn't have an issue when I re-started to bring to dealer. Dealer saw no codes.

~50K, same shifting issue, pulled to the side of the road, turned off, restarted and the issue is gone, dealer notified.

~60K switched tires from 29s to 32s,

~70k Issue escalation, now every 5 or so starts, usually in the afternoon. dealer notified, still no CEL, which is strange as they should have noted the tire size difference and offered the re-programming then.

~86K Now...
Brought in for a fix, now happens every ~3 starts, Dropped off for initial.
1st drop: They flushed fluid, re-flashed and programmed tire size, said fixed.
2nd drop: as I pulled out of the dealer the issue happened again (after the first drop) they couldn't replicate so said to come back if happens again, took 3 days, then went and dropped it again. Got a call the next afternoon saying it was having the same symptoms as a different Jeep JKU and the fix was the valve body. come to pick it and keep for a week till the part arrives.
3rd drop: Dropped it at the scheduled time, called 4 hours later that part hadn't arrived, come to get and drop next day.
4th drop, part arrived dropped off JK on Friday (last week). Received call on Monday that valve body did not fix the issue, a new trans had been ordered (Monday morning) and would be 2-3 days to arrive, should have JK back Thursday(today) or Friday.
When brought in, the claimed the tire size caused the issue, but issues date 40K before the tire change. Claimed my aftermarket front diff may have been an issue, was also "leaking like a sieve" (if never leaked a drop). then claimed that it may have been negligence if the oil was "fudge" in the transmission. Last, was the 2" leveling kit (they called it a lift) was what caused the transmission to fail, noted that the leveling kit was used only to compensate for the aftermarket front bumper, going from the ~25lb factory plastic bumper to an EVO Pro series and winch added ~200lbs to the front of the Jeep and the 2 inch level was to get the nose back to OEM angle (they relented). So basically they were saying/doing everything they could to make it my fault.

Oil found to have a slightly burnt odor, but no issue for negligence. the diff I checked again, fluid level normal, four bolts of the dozen were torqued to different PSI so the mechanic did mess with it, probably to figure out what was in it for a gasket (I didn't have RTV squeezed all out of the sides, I have LubeLockers in it).

My initial bill was $715 for a Trans "pull out" fee, skidplate removal/re-install, fluid flush, and thermostat housing gasket (from an earlier issue with the radiator leaking that they fixed last fall, but missed the leak at the engine). From the Mechanic that worked on it, They never pulled the skids, never pulled the trans, just re-flashed and programmed for the tire size, flushed the fluid, and did the gasket for the thermostat. so overbilled me for ~$600...

[BlackKnight]

Another update. The Dealer ordered a new transmission from chrysler, after replacing the valvebody (showed damage). Shrtlyafter getting notified by the dealer that they ordered the transmission, they called me back (three days later) that 1. Chrysler had stopped the shipment, 2 they claimed that the "variation of tiresize from left and right front and back was the cause of the transmission fault. Thus a User issue, and they require that I buy new OEM tires (OEM Size and quality). So they want me to buy a $1000 in new tires to check to see if the transmission is still broken.

So I spent an hour yesterday on the phone, now with Chrysler, Going over the fatal flaws with thier argument(s). The variation is tire sizes left right front and back are due to uneven wear. I had rotated the tires (5 wheel rotation) just a couple hundred miles before the Jeep was dropped at the Dealer.

1st fatal flaw, Varience left to right: 1 tires are wear compunents. they are designed to wear out, better the tread than other internal components. Also, between the tires and transmission there are several components that would have unusuall wear before any effect would have transferedto the transmission. First the Differentials, they are designed to compensate for varaitions of tires rolling in straight lines and arround corners. they are limited slip diferentials. no different in left to right tire size variation would ever make it past the differential as it's designed to compensate for those variaitions.

2nd fatal flaw, tire variations in size front to rear: Part one, the front and real axles have anothe component between them and the transmission, the transfer case. The transfer case has dual outputs (the drive shafts) and a singular input of power (transmission). so any varaition would hit the transfer case and cause undue wear on it. None has been found. Part two is the model and trim level of my wrangler is a sport. Sports are rear wheel drive unless shifted into 4. 99.5% of the time my Jeep is in rear wheel drive as its my daily driver, and only ever sees 4wd (high) on snow/ice, and class V roads, 4Low only offroad on loose dirt/sand/rocks where low gears are needed. So Any variation front to rear would only ever affect the transfer case, nothing passed to the transmission, and 99.5% would not have any possible effect on the transfercase, let alone the transmission.

Last fatal flaw, they are implying that this issue is because of the tires I have on the Jeep. I pointed out that the first CEL (and limp mode engadged) was at 14K about a year after getting the Jeep. Back when it was 100% stock and on the OEM tires. The issue started happeneing back then, but was only every 10-20K miles, but as of about 80K it's much much more regular, more like every 3-4 starts. The "new" tires have been on since 64K when the old ones would no longer pass inspection, the issues with the transmission goes all the way back to 14K well before the tire change.

So after hearing my argument, I totally won over the engineer and the customer service rep on the line, and they told me that they would escalate and likely push that the transmission get sent to the dealer for replacement under warentee. So one can hope that it will be answered soon, I should hear today one way or the other.

[BlackKnight]

Back in the shop Again today. This time they are saying they are going to take out and fully rebuild the transmission per Chrysler request. Friday on the way home from work I started up a hill from a 20 mph zone, about halfway up the hill it changes to 45, I had a car right on my tail as I started up the hill and going through 1st and 2nd, when it went into 3rd it failed to engage (No power, engine RPMs climbed almost immediately to 5K and CEL light on). The Guy that was behind me almost hit me as I popped my hazards and pulled to the side. I immediately noticed that unlike the norm when it starts acting up, I was able to use sports shifting. I put it back in 1st and over-revved 2nd jumping 3rd into 4th to make it home.

We'll see what they say now...

Last is was each tire had a different diameter, then tires were a different size than stock (OEM=275/75-r17, mine 285/75-r17, difference of .5 inch diameter, 2-inch width difference), So wondering what the excuse will be now.

[MDSRACING398]

So there rebuilding the brand new transmission? From a month ago?