Let's Talk Lifts . . .

[RalphTomaccio]

I'm not crazy about running spacers either. It's been a matter of economics for me. But, I will look into seeing if I can find a set of inexpensive wheels. How much backspacing am I looking for? And if I am able to get wheels, what size would you recommend - 16's, 17's?

As for tires, I haven't really decided on any specific brand. They will almost certainly be 33's though. And I probably won't be getting those for another year or so.

[DDewar53]

Hi Ralph

How much are the spacers? Aren't they $125 - $150 per axle set? I got a set of 8" x 16" Procomp Soft 8s from Summit Racing for short money, probably about the same for 4 as what I've seen spacers sell for.

You could get these:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/vsw-85-6873/overview/

[RalphTomaccio]

The Teraflex brand runs about $96.00/pair, but other brands can be had for less.

[RalphTomaccio]

I got a set of 8" x 16" Procomp Soft 8s from Summit Racing for short money, probably about the same for 4 as what I've seen spacers sell for.

Don, I might some day be interested in your wheels, but I can't swing for tires right now. So, I'm not sure what I should do at this point. I guess my choices are either to settle for the less than optimal spacers or put the whole lift thing on hold until I can do both a lift, tires and wheels all at one time. That wouldn't be for quite awhile though.

[RalphTomaccio]

Reviving a year old thread here. I'm back to rethinking a lift and am pretty certain it's going to happen right after the holidays. Originally I was thinking of the Teraflex 2.5" coil spring lift but have gotten more interested in the AEV JK DualSport XT Suspension 2.5" lift. It's a little more pricey, but it does not require the wheel spacers or exhaust extension modification that the Teraflex requires.

http://www.aev-conversions.com/shop/pro ... ension-2-5

Definitely will be adding JKS Quick Disconnects to go along with that as well.

Also, I'm considering adding new (front only due to funds) adjustable lower control arms and wanted to get your opinions as to 1) is this a good upgrade to go with a lift and recommended and 2) if so, what do I look for in good LCA's? The type of joints, whether they can be adjusted without removing, brand, etc.

As always, I appreciate your thoughts. If the front LCA's are not a good idea, or if there is a better place to put a few extra bucks, please don't hesitate to speak up.

[BlackNBlue-ISH]

I was wondering why the two different 2.5" lifts have different requirements as far as the exhaust modification and wheel spacers (or aftermarket wheels). So I googled the Teraflex coil lift and followed your link to the AEV. From what I've read, I think that the driveshaft will interfere with the exhaust only if the jeep is fully flexed with the shocks offered on the kit. That's why they recommend the modification. As far as the wheel spacers, possibly the shock body is larger and would cause interference from that alone with a stock wheel and no spacers.

Aside from that, regarding the two lifts, the Teraflex lift is a single rate spring, whereas the AEV is a triple rate spring. The single rate spring will give you a very consistent ride quality, where the triple rate will give you a "variable" rate. Because of that, if your driving down the road, the triple rate will absorb the small bumps using the lower rate portion of the spring, and as the spring compresses further with larger bumps, will hit the firmer springs. With the single rate, all the bumps will hit the same spring rate. To really figure out how they compare, you'd have to determine what the spring rates are between them.

Instead of trying to understand the gibberish I just wrote, try this link:
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/progr ... 44678.html

Then, try this link. Here, this guy actually compare the kits your looking at.
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/lifti ... 21119.html

Why are you doing the control arms? Just for the adjustability, or because you've bashed the crap out of the ones you have like I did?

[RalphTomaccio]

I was wondering why the two different 2.5" lifts have different requirements as far as the exhaust modification and wheel spacers (or aftermarket wheels). So I googled the Teraflex coil lift and followed your link to the AEV. From what I've read, I think that the driveshaft will interfere with the exhaust only if the jeep is fully flexed with the shocks offered on the kit. That's why they recommend the modification. As far as the wheel spacers, possibly the shock body is larger and would cause interference from that alone with a stock wheel and no spacers.

Aside from that, regarding the two lifts, the Teraflex lift is a single rate spring, whereas the AEV is a triple rate spring. The single rate spring will give you a very consistent ride quality, where the triple rate will give you a "variable" rate. Because of that, if your driving down the road, the triple rate will absorb the small bumps using the lower rate portion of the spring, and as the spring compresses further with larger bumps, will hit the firmer springs. With the single rate, all the bumps will hit the same spring rate. To really figure out how they compare, you'd have to determine what the spring rates are between them.

Instead of trying to understand the gibberish I just wrote, try this link:
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/progr ... 44678.html

Then, try this link. Here, this guy actually compare the kits your looking at.
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/lifti ... 21119.html

Why are you doing the control arms? Just for the adjustability, or because you've bashed the crap out of the ones you have like I did?

Hi Dan,

As I understand it, the wheel spacer requirement is due to the rear tires rubbing against the longer sway bar links in the rear when using the stock wheels due to the backspacing requirement of 4.5" or less. The exhaust issue was due to shock length which, I understand, has been changed in the Teraflex kit. This is directly from Teraflex:

"Hi Ralph. You won’t need the exhaust spacer kit with our 2.5” lift with shocks, The shocks have the correct length that will keep the drive shaft from contacting the exhaust. You will need our 1.25” wheel offset adapters, if you want to run a stock rim. The stock rim back spacing causes interference with the longer rear sway bar links that are included in the 2.5’ kit. Even a stock tire can rub with a stock rim."

As for the front lower control arms, as I understand the issue, a lift will change the geometry and there are brackets that are recommended that will help correct that. The problem with the brackets is that the LCA mounts get lowered by about 3", taking away some of your ground clearance at least where they are located. The way around that is to not use the brackets and use adjustable lower control arms instead to correct geometry. Your thoughts on this?

Thanks for those two links. A lot of good information there, as well as in the link shown in the first post in that thread.

Have you ever researched a topic and get to the point of total confusion and inaction? I think I am there with regards to everything related to doing a lift. One thing leads to another and trying to determine exactly what should be done without wasting money becomes difficult.

[Frank]

Dont let it get to you Ralph. If your looking to install a lift you must be ready to try harder wheeling. The wheel spacer thing is a debate that will go on and on. The one thing thats known to happen with them is taking life out of the unit bearing front end. If the tire can contact the link , why not just adjust the steering stop to eliminate that . Its free and can be done by anyone. Then you dont need wheels or spacers. When your ready to try harder stuff or when you get more aggressive tires , then get the new wheels and the stock ones are for commuting . A quality lift kit is worth every penny. They spent hours designing and testing. A kit that lets a tire hit anything when it dont hit anything now is just thrown together. Buy the best kit you can afford and dont look back.The adjustable lower arms in my mind is a good thing. I would think that an engineer would have the fractions on the tip of his tongue. Once you lift the chassis , everything runs at different angles . To be able to correct this is important. I would think the rear is just as important with driveshaft angles. Ive heard people use the adjustable on top not to damage them. Again , the arms are pointed down with the lift and do get a little closer together , (wheel Base) Adjusting the LCAs can correct this. Hope any of this clears up your confusion . FjR68

[BlackNBlue-ISH]

If the control arms are just to correct the pinion angle, caster and generally restore the geometry, I would get adjustable upper control arms. When lifting the vehicle, the control arm angles become steeper like Frank was saying. When that happens, you're actually shortening the wheelbase front to rear. To correct the geometry and pinion angles, you need to shorten the arms to pull the pinion up (specifically for the front double cardan shaft, not sure if the rear driveshaft is double cardan or single). This will shorten the wheelbase even more. With Upper Adjustable control arms, you prevent the wheelbase from being "shortened" a second time, and like Frank said, protect the arms.

I plan to replace all my control arms with a fully adjustable set in the next year/two years and am currently planning on running a set of Currie arms with Johnny Joints. They are greasable and rebuildable and allow for a bunch of flex. They are adjustable will adjust as needed. I figure, I'll only need to buy one set of those, and they will be good for a long time. Like you, I want to spend my money the best.

I heard this just earlier this week, "I cannot afford to buy cheap things". Meaning, buy cheap now, you may need to fix/replace sooner or more often in the future. Buy a more expensive, but better product, and it may save you in the end.

[RalphTomaccio]

I went back and re-read AEV's description of the benefits of their Geometry Correction Front Control Arm Drop Brackets and have a better understanding. Initially, I was thinking they are for use on just the lower control arms but, in fact, they realign both lower and uppers. Plus, they seem to be recommending that the the brackets are NOT a replacement for adjustable arms, or that adjustable arms are not a full replacement for the brackets but, rather, work together and do slightly different things. Here's the info on the AEV Geometry Brackets:

http://www.aev-conversions.com/shop/pro ... ackets-frt

This makes me think that maybe I should start with the brackets and stick with the OEM arms to conserve money now (only $105.00) compared to trying to come up with approximately $600,00 to $800.00 for a good set of lower and upper adjustable control arms at this point. I can always add the control arms at a later date. Thoughts?

[Frank]

You had said in an earlier post that (If Im correct) The brackets would bolt into the factory brackets on the frame to lower the control arms. You were right in assuming they would take away ground clearance. Dont do it. Wait till you have the funds and do it right. Only my opinion and that dont count for crap ! Can we say crap on the site ? It just dont make sense to me . FjR68

[BlackNBlue-ISH]

You had said in an earlier post that (If Im correct) The brackets would bolt into the factory brackets on the frame to lower the control arms. You were right in assuming they would take away ground clearance. Dont do it. Wait till you have the funds and do it right. Only my opinion and that dont count for crap ! Can we say crap on the site ? It just dont make sense to me . FjR68

I agree with frank. The brackets will definitely help on road ride because it lowers the attachment point of the control arms. But in doing that, it can put additional stress on the factory mounting locations. You will loose some ground clearance. Adjustable arms will correct the geometry of the from axle to correct the alignment of the axle and give you back the road characteristics you currently have. I'd go with adjustable arms as funds allow.

[RalphTomaccio]

As funds allow, you guys are recommending skipping the brackets altogether and live with the incorrect geometry until I can swing adjustable control arms. I guessing that, because the lift at 2.5" is mild, the un-corrected geometry is something that can be tolerated temporarily? And if I can't do all 8 at once, what would be the recommended combo - lower fronts & upper rears, the reverse of that, just the fronts?

Now, to throw something else into the mix, when and where to replacement track bars come into play if either is not included in the lift kit?

This whole lift thing has been quite an education for me.

[Frank]

I believe the JK is susceptible to having quirks after a lift. Ive heard a lot of people complaining about steering issues. 2.5" should be nothing to a Jeep , but it seams to affect a JK. I dont own one , I only listen and read Jeep stuff. I would guess "Bump Steer" is one of them. Driving and you hit a small pot hole and the Jeep darts in that direction. We are pretty much used to driving our Jeeps anyway. As long as its not scary stupid things like death wobble , Id say put in the springs of choice and do the arms and alignment when you can. The trac bar is connected to the driver side (left) frame rail and the passenger side (Right) of the axle. As you lift the chassis it trys to pivot and makes the left front (drivers) tire stick out more than the right side. So if you lift the chassis the axle lives more to the left. An adjustable one allows you to center the axle under the fenders. The thing is its going to be so small a difference it might not matter at all. Thats where rumors of the JK steering issues come in. I cant tell you how to do this Ralph , JK guys should be sharing their thoughts and what they ran into. I only suggested doing it once and correct to make it safe and perfect the first time. FjR68

[DDewar53]

Frank - not sure where you're hearing about that. I've lifted 2 JKs with Teraflex 2.5" coil kits. Left the stock CAs on. One '09, one a '12. No steering issues with either one.